Runboard.com
Слава Україні!
Cinemaseekers.com Message Board - Cinemaseekers Forum THE TRUTH ABOUT CINEMA

CINEMASEEKERS FORUM

This forum is meant to be an extension of the themes and concerns of our website. Please keep the focus on spirituality, philosophy and cinema. Thank you!
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this forum are the sole responsibility of the individual contributors and do not necessarily represent the views of the owners of this website (except in postings by the owners themselves under "cinemaseekers" or "questers".)

runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)

 
friendlessvoyage Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Banned user

Registered: 02-2004
Posts: 73
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
On Cinemaseekers.com


And yet I realize that posting the previous essay does nothing and shares little new as well, for who wouldn't publicly profess agreement with the views held within it (when not knowing it comes from nazi.org, that is!)?

So is this another post to pass the time (aren't they all?), and couldn't I (and we) be spending our time more wisely than chatting over the internet, or maintaining websites and message boards, which means utilizing the weakest tool (or environment) of communication, community, and coercion known to man, the internet? I recently took my site, afriendlessvoyage.net, down. However the urge to put up a new version that will somehow be better than the last remains! This addictive, soul-sucking cyberspace, with its false ease in spreading good words and deeds... if only I COULD go outside and simply take direct action (and direct communion)! Let's be practical here: for America and Europe, there are very few non-virtualized, non-technocratic avenues left! (If you do not believe me, try to find someone under the age of 25 - the leading economic/social forces in our culture which is so deeply rooted in the power of commerce - who is not "wired," who doesn't spend most of his time watching TV, using computers, and keeping up with the latest in pop culture and pop news!) And what good will reading books ("In the Light of Truth," for instance) do now, or at least at this precarious moment in time! Realize, would you Gregory and Maria Pearse, that your website, despite the hard work you have put in, despite the great truths and ideals you express so ardently here, is almost totally impotent against the tsunami of evil and misguidedness threatening humanity and the planet! You have affected me (to a degree), yes, it is true, but who else out there cares! Heed my orneriness for once and realize that I speak a disturbing fact: despite your best intentions (and I believe you to be good people, and I realize you hold me at bay due to my sinfulness or my unpleasantness), your website does little to no good! Don't fall prey like the others (and like me, yes - I am hypocritical here, but at least I make it known that I am struggling!) to this SPIDER WEB of a world wide web, this techno-utopic psychological and spiritual imprisonment we have helped to construct around ourselves! And in completing this metaphor, do not think for a moment that a huge and vile spider, though hidden from sight, isn't waiting to consume us once we are fully entrapped!

You may say that you are foremostly trying to get the word out about great art cinema, or to at least provide a resource for those who are already seeking such knowledge. Yet, come on now, in every other paragraph here you cannot resist advocating the reading of "In the Light of the Truth." I know you wish others to find out about this knowledge (or information, as I would habitually call it), and what better way, you may believe, than to review the world of film, both obscure and popular, to help achieve this? Come on, don't make this a secret, and don't deny it now, for surely you expected sooner or later to get such a response. Why, I imagine most who come here intuit this to be the home of a kind of cult, or a least a burgeoning one, no?

As if cults or cultures can start on the internet! It takes real world, face-to-face interaction and community (and living! and home life! and the additions of new generations upon the old!) to bring such things about. Grit your teeth and face it. The most revolutionary act a modern man can do now is establish and maintain human relationships with the least amount of technological aid as possible!

I care about you two for reasons unknown to me and you may believe me to be insincere (I am not, despite my contradictions). Or extremely confused and unstable. And foolhardy, ignorant. Delusional. Probably repulsive, too. But by my own miserableness I have grown a bit concerned for you two, believe it or not. What I say comes straight from the heart.

It is of paramount importance: you MUST get off the internet, at least as best as you can. Set an example! This "place" is nothing but a plague! Do not try to transmit wisdom and values through it! Don't be a fool like the rest of the millions who have already been suckered into this! That is my most consistent message here, if you have not deduced it for yourself. You may accuse me rightly of offenses to the Creator and to yourselves; you may accuse me rightly of anarchist and idiotic thinking, but DO realize my consistency here on this subject. (For I can never be truly civil in cyberspace! I won't allow myself to become another virtual drone! I tire of them!) Do realize you waste your life with this site, and that the best you have drawn to it is someone as cantankerous and dead-beat as myself!

Matthew


Last edited by friendlessvoyage, 4/7/2004, 4:49 am
4/7/2004, 4:37 am Link to this post Send Email to friendlessvoyage   Send PM to friendlessvoyage
 
Chris Kelvin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 80
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: On Cinemaseekers.com


I love Tarkovsky, Bresson, Sokurov,…..so many others, and I’m interested in what these films have to say. This need comes from a spiritual void and concern deep inside me and these film gave me the first glimpse that I wasn’t alone. I learned a lot from these films: They are the most important films.
Then I got in contact with this site. Two things are mixed here: these incredible films that I love so much and spiritual discussion. For me this site is a little goldmine to delve deeper. It got me in contact with things that interest me like “the grail message” and other filmmakers. So I thank Gregory and Maria for this.

Now. It’s true that it’s an impossible task to have these spiritual dicussions on the internet. First of all it’s very difficult to talk about them, because words are so empty, they don’t say much and it’s very easy to misinterpreted them. Second I always found it frustrating to not actually see and know the person who you are talking to. They are just words: there’s no face, emotions, interaction,….. and certainly not experience. And I think mutual experience between people is a basis for a discussion. I mean it’s better to comprehend things if you walk through a forest and enjoy the silence that is present there then to type some words on some messageboard. This walk in the forest goes much much deeper. But the only tool we have here on this messageboard are words. And words stay on the surface.

About the book “In the Light of Truth”: I regularly read it now and I learned a lot from it, but personally I think this book isn’t of much importance. It’s the experience of life itself that is of the biggest importance. This book and this site are just helping tools. They aren’t really necessary. The biggest learningschool is life itself. And I personally think that a piece of music, a spiritual film, a painting or a book can “only” make you aware of some of the most important questions of life. That is why I love them: they make you aware or in the best case awaken you: like probably “Naqoyqatsi” did for you Matthew. Further development is up to us personally.
When I first learned about this messageboard I had great hopes that I could get in contact with people with the same interests and questions that I had (because I didn’t find these people in my own invironment): on a certain level this is the case, but I soon realized that each path is individual: we can’t do it together. No one can help you (not even the Pearses). You have to find our own personal path.

So I’m very sorry to realize that not much can be achieved through this messageboard. Maybe if we all lived closer together and could meet eachother personally we could exchange our impressions, experiences, thoughts,………. Real human contact with simular minds instead of artificial dicussions on the internet.

Chris.


Last edited by questers, 4/8/2004, 4:23 am
4/7/2004, 10:57 am Link to this post Send Email to Chris Kelvin   Send PM to Chris Kelvin
 
MatthewJ Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 10-2003
Posts: 27
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: On Cinemaseekers.com


quote:

Chris Kelvin wrote:


About the book “In the Light of Truth”: I regularly read it now and I learned a lot from it, but personally I think this book isn’t of much importance. It’s the experience of life itself that is of the biggest importance. This book and this site are just helping tools. They aren’t really necessary. The biggest learningschool is life itself.
Chris.




Going into life without the helping tools is like stepping into a minefield though. Too easy to fail the test without the study guide, especially for weaker people like me. Even if the book isn't important to you, which I find hard to believe, at least you know what's what and have the option of passing the test if you want.

Personally I think some people can't be helped anyway. Look at the number of visitors to this site compared to say a Spielberg site. Says it all really. And this site has good search engine rankings.
However I am convinced this site has introduced some people to great directors (Peleshian was the only one I didn't know when I came here) and therefore it serves an important task, since the internet opens up the gateway to the world.

To be honest I find these posts very negative. I am getting more convinced by the day that it is a monumental waste of time telling people about Abd-Ru-Shin and the plans of the Soviet / PRC alliance,both of which have hard evidence to back them up, growing by the day. I think there comes a point where we have to go for ourselves.



Last edited by MatthewJ, 4/8/2004, 5:09 am
4/8/2004, 5:04 am Link to this post Send Email to MatthewJ   Send PM to MatthewJ
 
questers Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Head Administrator

Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 74
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: On Cinemaseekers.com


Well...Where can we begin?.. First of all, Matthew of friendlessvoyage, your concern for us would be almost touching were it not so misguided. You keep looking for evil (and for happiness) "in all the wrong places", as the song says. Nothing ["no thing", as Godard put it in his "King Lear"] is evil in and of itself - not the Web, not even the weapons. These are all merely tools at man's disposal, who uses them either for good or for evil. Even a weapon can be put to good use (such as to defend a woman's honor, for instance) and how much more so the Internet! The fact that most people have chosen to misuse it reflects on them personally and has nothing whatever to do with us or our website. In any case, how in the world is it possible for you to know how much or how little good our site has actually done, continues to do and will do in the future? Have you become omniscient, by any chance? Do you have at your disposal a complete survey of all the people, who have visited it since 1997?

There is no argument that the "tsunami of evil" can no longer be stopped by any human effort, either individual or collective, because the overwhelming majority has made up their minds to continue on the path of self-destruction (you are not revealing anything new to us here). But that DOES NOT mean that individual striving towards the ideal is of no importance. It is actually more important now than at any point in human history. And the only way to get a grip on this bit of reality is to accept the fact of continued existence after death. When we say that the majority has chosen the path of self-destruction, we do not mean by that the destruction of their earthly lives (as you do). What we mean is something much more catastrophic and it has to do with what happens AFTER earthly death for this majority: due to their non-spiritual inclinations they will be pulled downwards (in accordance with the Law of Spiritual Gravity which functions the same way as the physical one here) into regions of darkness and suffering. And if they persevere in their refusal to concern themselves with spiritual things, they will keep on getting denser and heavier and will keep on sinking lower and lower, because the force of Gravity will eventually pull them down into the funnel of disintegration, in which their personal egos will be extinguished. THAT is the only real death there is for any human being and it is the only thing worth fearing and taking all the precautionary measures against.

In this context, it can easily be understood that the individual is NEVER at the mercy of the majority's decision, because real destruction and real death has nothing to do with planetary annihilation. EVERY human being continues to live after death, but ( to use a modern expression) the quality of that life will depend entirely on the degree of one's spiritual development. This is where the individual effort really pays off and nothing else counts. Those, who are more spiritual (therefore, lighter and less dense) will be quite naturally uplifted through the Law of Spiritual Gravity to regions of beauty and luminosity. While those, who are less (or not at all) spiritual will be forced down to the lower regions of heavy density and dimness (all of it corresponding minutely to the exact degree of that person's lack of spirituality). Therefore, any improvement in one's spiritual condition (no matter how slight) is of immense importance, since it will result in living in a better place in the beyond. It goes without saying that there is simply nothing more significant anyone can do in this life than to induce people to turn to spiritual things (be it through a website, a film, a song, a poem etc.). No "direct action" can even begin to compare with this, because a "direct action" can only result in improvement of the temporary earthly conditions, while having no effect in the influencing of the circumstances where people spend the majority of their time. This is what must be kept in mind by those who wish to do something that wouldn't be a waste of their life.

As for "In the Light of Truth", we have never denied our love and appreciation for this book. On the contrary, we have featured it as prominently as possible and will continue to do so in the future. If anyone wishes to deduce from this that we are part of a sect (despite our disclaimer), then they might as well also deduce that we are part of a Tarkovsky sect, because we make no secret of our love and appreciation for his films. In the case of the Grail Message, as in everything else, the degree of spiritual maturity/immaturity determines the individual reaction. Some are so spiritually dense that they cannot even bring themselves to open this book. Others open it, but see nothing special in it. Still others find some helpful things for themselves, but regard it in general as unimportant. And so it goes on, with as many variations as there are people. In most cases, it is not until AFTER death that a person realizes what he has been offered through this book. The more alive the spiritual core of an individual is, the more he will be able to recognize this already during his life on earth.

As for this message board, you can see in the column "views" that quite a few people actually come here to view the board, but choose not to participate. For some reason, most people choose to write personal letters to us rather than post messages on the board. As for the quality of the board, that is, of course, up to us. Despite its obvious limitation as a medium for communication, we can still raise it up to a higher level. And, by the way, we do appreciate very nice comments about our site by Chris as well as by others.
4/8/2004, 6:48 am Link to this post Send Email to questers   Send PM to questers
 
friendlessvoyage Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Banned user

Registered: 02-2004
Posts: 73
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: On Cinemaseekers.com


I will try to explain it a little differently:

Things, be they tools or nature or our bodies, are neither good nor evil, I agree. Yet tools, and I mean here in particular our COMPLEX technologies, inevitably express our intent, our spirit, because they are of our design. They reflect our inner selves better than any mirror can.

For an ape-man a tool may be a stick he has found on the ground that he suddenly uses to bash into his rival's skull, thereby expressing evil intent with a neutral object from nature. He could also use that neutral object to help cook a meal for his family. But once tools or technologies become complex they begin to express our innermost beings and therefore become an extension of ourselves, and as Reggio says they become us and we become them: they (and we) become our environment.

Now is, say, a car evil, or good, or neutral? Well, were a group of individuals who had never known cars to wander across one in a desert and use it in aid of further crossing this desert then yes I would say it could be thought of as neutral then, and its use in this instance a good one, but since the car's invention - and we are historically still connected to this (I'm assuming you didn't grow up in a remote region of Africa) - was not of the best intent, it still has, as an object, CARRIED WITH IT this force of wrong-doing. The car originally served no truly needful purpose for its maker or those he designed it for, and it has ended up, intentionally or not, causing THE SPREAD of great havoc or evil (not unlike the spread of evil of the counterfeit money in "L'Argent" ) since the day it hit the streets. It has broken up communities and families, encouraged further destruction of the environment and overpopulation... well, I don't need to get into all that.

The internet is much the same, though perhaps worse, especially in its potential. Surely you would admit, as has Chris here, that discussing spiritual concerns or "In the Light of Truth" face to face (yes, but still here on Earth, no less!) is, how can I put it, better in many ways...? Surely you would admit you'd rather hear a voice at least, see a face, feel the person next to you when talking of things of such importance? Why of course you prefer this. Everyone does. And no doubt you practice it pretty often anyway.

But the point still remains: you two have spent TOO much time trying to communicate through the worst medium/tool you could possibly choose, this blasted internet. If it IS of concern to you to EFFECTIVELY get the good word out, then why choose such ineffective means? Or do you believe we have reached the point (as did Reggio when faced with having to use the medium of film to criticize such highly technological things as film) that this, this cyberspace, is our only option? I mean, I have said that in not so many words several times now, and I am full aware of my contradictions here.

I see these complex forms of technology, which we live and breathe in our daily lives so that they have become our environment of our earthly existence (a phrase which you know I use with hesitation) as a kind of jungle growth we have wrongfully nurtured for far too long. It overwhelms us now to the point that it is difficult to feel and emote and take notice of our own existence without its interference. It is like we are continually constructing higher and higher, and stronger and stronger, walls around us, and you by continuing this website (or perhaps even by making your film) are adding more bricks of your own to this (and I am adding some, too, of course, as I write this), but with good intentions, as you see it as using these bricks to spread a message that will help to cause the dissolution of the need, and the drive, for others to continue creating these walls, watering this jungle growth of spirit-deadening existence. Well these bricks you are adding are only causing others to be less able to live a spiritual life! For these walls, or jungle, not only entrap our bodies and separate out individual selves from others, they twist our mind and make us become like machines!

There is a point, you see, when one has put too many bricks up with too little notice, without others caring... when one should strive towards more old fashioned and truly revolutionary ways of doing good, of helping others to strive upwards as you youself do the same.

Matthew


Last edited by friendlessvoyage, 4/8/2004, 7:51 am
4/8/2004, 7:50 am Link to this post Send Email to friendlessvoyage   Send PM to friendlessvoyage
 
friendlessvoyage Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Banned user

Registered: 02-2004
Posts: 73
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: On Cinemaseekers.com


I'll add to this a quote by Jacques Ellul from his "What I Believe." I think there is enough from it that can be understood out of its context of the whole chapter ("The Word" ):

"... expertise on works of art, especially paintings, cannot be programmed by a systems expert. 'In effect, although there are well-qualified experts in the field, paintings offer a description of the world that can be reproduced only with all the power and wealth of natural language.' This is why there can never be communication between computers and human beings. Computers can understand human phrases related to acts and limited objectifiable concepts. They can give information and obey orders. But this plainly has nothing whatever to do with the word or speech. The real danger and serious risk that we run with the proliferation of computers and robots is that being forced into the relations with machines will slowly reduce our word to the nonhuman, external, and objective aspect, and this in turn will make of the word something that is of use only for action. Once this comes about, we will lose our human distinctiveness. Without what is not said, without what is beyond itself, the word will simply become a utilitarian cipher. Face to face with speaking robots, will we still know how to speak in human fashion? This is one of the dangers of using computers in schools. One may see already the incredible poverty of the vocabulary in the young, their thirst for the inaudible word of rock music, the replacement of meaning by rhythm, the lack of aptitude for any thought that is not mathematical. The domination of the computer will complete this work of mental destruction."

Matthew

Last edited by friendlessvoyage, 4/11/2004, 7:48 am
4/11/2004, 7:47 am Link to this post Send Email to friendlessvoyage   Send PM to friendlessvoyage
 
ecarner Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 05-2004
Posts: 10
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: On Cinemaseekers.com


I find this site to be a wonderful resource. I have tried to discuss such issues as are raised here on the imdb.com boards but mostly I have been shouted down as some sort of rabid spiritual fanatic. As if demanding anything more than mere titilation or observation in film is being mildly unreasonable.

Just as books, art and writing have guided us in the past the internet can be force for good in the future. Well done. I only hope that I can maybe contribute something to material here.

5/5/2004, 8:12 pm Link to this post Send Email to ecarner   Send PM to ecarner
 
questers Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Head Administrator

Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 74
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: On Cinemaseekers.com


Thank you very much for your kind words. Feel free to contribute on the message board.
5/6/2004, 2:15 am Link to this post Send Email to questers   Send PM to questers
 


Add a reply





You are not logged in (login)