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Re: The idea of Providence in a performance


FriendlessVoyage has been banned from this board for his outbursts of hatred, his inability to respect other people's beliefs and for his unwillingness to express himself in a more gentleman-like manner.

Gregory and Maria Pearse
7/21/2004, 8:47 pm Link to this post Send Email to questers   Send PM to questers
 
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Re: The idea of Providence in a performance


Post deleted.

Last edited by MarkNA, 1/31/2006, 8:08 pm
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Re: The idea of Providence in a performance


Look, everything I said was a truism and I stand by it with my fist firmly clenched and aimed high. Get off your magical pony and come play ball. I am not talking of arguments and fights here, I am talking of being real, and quitting your game of snobbery.

I will leave you all alone: yes, most assuredly, I will. Whatever OUTBURSTS OF HATRED I've spewed forth here were serving a purpose. My blood does not boil when I write them, and my invective is carefully managed to punch only in your stomach-regions Greg, and not anywhere that is unsportsman-like, and un-gentleman-like.

Goodbye, goodbye, and all that jazz. And take care, "Chris Kelvin," whomever you be, for you seem to be a kind and simple soul that has retained a healthy degree of sense and fortitude. What kind I say except keep your head up and your eyes open, and remember that there's more to life than the Psalms.

Matthew
stalepie@comcast.net

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Re: The idea of Providence in a performance


I should inform you Friendlessvoyage that by attacking someone you always achieve the reverse effect.

Mr. Kelvin
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Re: The idea of Providence in a performance


Hello everyone

I would like to thank Gregory and Maria Pearse for the wonderful website they have created. I have really enjoyed reading their interesting articles and watching their short films on the internet. Well done!

However, I would like to express my own view on the current hot topic ... According to the 'questers'

"Reincarnation (and the karma associated with it) is a simple fact of life. Without it, God's Justice is but an empty phrase, for then there is no way in heaven or on earth to account for the inequality in people's
conditions at birth."

But does karma really justify life and make it more perfect? Well, it seems we are given an infinite number of chances to better ourselves over a long chain of births and deaths. Bad people are punished, good people are rewarded. Perfect arithmetics. 1+1=2. The world has become a mechanism which works
with the precision of a Swiss watch. On the other hand there is no place left for love and forgiveness in such a small world. The world is a prison and you must serve your full term, your life sentence for the past and future deeds. The world is a prison. This is the inevitable conclusion of Buddhism and other pessimistic religious and philosophical systems. So does karma give us hope and explain everything? Perhaps it tries to explain, but it somehow does not inspire me with Gratitude and Awe. Why should I be
grateful? I am my own saviour, I have earned
everything with my own sweat.

In his last film 'Sacrifice' (the dialogue between Otto and Alexander in the first scene) Tarkovsky shows us his view on the concept of reincarnation. I don't think he shares the view that this is something positive or necessary.
 
Regards,

Ura
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Re: The idea of Providence in a performance


Welcome to the board, Ura, and thank you for your comments.

Regarding the current topic of karma, we all want to be as objective as possible when it comes to our observations of life. Is it really true that karma is a "life sentence", as you put it, and that one must serve the full term in the prison of life? On deeper reflection, all of us can point to hundreds of cases of people, who have triumphed over their circumstances. One of the most famous and inspiring of these is the story of Beethoven, whose glorious music testifies not only to each man's ability to overcome his karma, but also to the miraculous help each one of us receives from the Light in doing so. No one is locked into his earthly situation and everyone has the power at his disposal to rise above his or her circumstances.

Perhaps, in a simplified way, one might say that the "bad people are punished, the good people are rewarded" - but in reality, can the world be so neatly divided into the good and the bad people? All of us have made many mistakes over the course of our existence and without the Law of Reciprocal Action (also known as the Law of Karma or the Law of Sowing and Reaping) we would be unable to unburden ourselves and return to our Place of Origin.

You feel that there is no place left for love or forgiveness. But it is precisely the very Law of Karma that ensures that love and forgiveness are available to each individual, no matter how badly he/she may have fallen. Is it not Love that grants us a chance again and again, with each new earth-life, with each new day, to correct our mistakes? Who else can correct the faults that we carry deep within ourselves, but us? Is it not indolence that makes us wish that they'd be simply and magically taken away from us? Such arbitrary dismissal of our faults (sins) is not only impossible under the natural Laws of this Creation, but it would also never constitute Love - for such "love" would only help to foster more faults. (As we all have seen, those who consider themselves already saved often behave worse than those who don't.)

True Love is granted to us every moment in the very circumstances, which we have brought about for ourselves. Whatever situation we find ourselves in, it is there that we have the greatest chance of discovering which of our tendencies connect us to that particular environment. Through that recognition (and depending on its strength), our inner being is gradually changed and we evolve from "bad" to "good", i. e. from being unacceptable to being acceptable to our Creator. In the granting of this process of personal evolution, of personal atonement, lies the great Love of our Creator. It is the PROCESS of redemption that leads to forgiveness, not any one-time arbitrary act.

It is true that we must be active participants in this process, that we must work for our salvation, but that does not mean that we owe it all to ourselves or that we can do it all by ourselves. In fact, without the Laws of this Creation, it would be utterly impossible for us to cleanse ourselves from our faults and return to Paradise. The Laws of God ensure that the process of redemption is kept in motion and available to each individual without exception - and that is something to be grateful for.
(Cont'd)


Last edited by questers, 7/23/2004, 9:07 pm
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Re: The idea of Providence in a performance


(Cont'd)
It is also true that without the exact knowledge of these Laws, it is very difficult to feel Gratitude and Awe. Only a deep understanding of these Laws (how They impact our lives, how They interact with our own free will and how many glorious Light-beings work tirelessly in the Laws to help us attain salvation) brings one to the state of Admiration and Adoration of the Creator. Otherwise, it really does begin to look like a soul-less Swiss-watch apparatus.

In conclusion, here's an interesting excerpt, concerning the definition and origin of the concept of "karma" from the book of an Indian writer R. M. Duraisamy "From India to the Truth":

"If there is one spiritual law that is well-known to the Indian race, it is the Law of Karma! The word "Karma" has its roots in Sanskrit dating thousands of years back, and is today generally understood in the sense of one’s destiny as being determined by one’s actions. Its linguistic meaning is supposed to be "action", i.e. everything that is willed by the individual, whether thoughts, words or deeds.


This special word "Karma" did not originate from the Indian people or from Indian philosophy, i.e. it was not "thought out" by a few clever philosophers, as many might seem to think, but as with all spiritual things, it was given to the Indian people at their former peak of spiritual development. The Knowledge of Karma was a gift from the Light to those Indians who had reached that stage of development where they were fully prepared to learn about the concepts of reciprocal action, rebirth and reincarnation."



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posticon karma


I enjoyed reading your reply. Thanks. I still would like to continue my criticism.

Firstly, the active propaganda of the word "karma" in the modern world does not add anything to its value. It is fundamentally incompatible with the words "guilt", "responsibility" or "love". The love I am talking about is the unreserved, unprotected, naked and feminine love, the self-giving bread of life, the one who is very different from a lawyer, a teacher, an accountant (it doesn't matter if the accountant wishes my best), a soulless karma law. Forgiveness must be unreserved, unprotected, without any demand of guarantee, otherwise there is no forgiveness. The karma law establishes correspondence, proportionality between our actions and reactions. In mathematics any correspondence or law is called function. A function can be linear, hyperbolic, exponential, etc. It doesn't matter. It remains a function, a proportionality law between action and reaction. In physics we have Newton's third law, which states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In the spiritual plane there can be no correspondence between action and reaction. Here we have an essentially different type of a relationship. This face-to-face intimate relationship cannot exist in the presence of a third party, e.g., a regulative karma law.

So how do we explain the injustice in life if there is no karma? I don't know. Science is progressing rapidly, but we still have many-many unresolved questions. Regarding the 'teachers' and the 'authorities', don't trust them too much emoticon
7/24/2004, 3:29 pm Link to this post Send Email to Ura   Send PM to Ura
 
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Re: karma


You are welcome to hold on to your view. However, the Natural Laws (through Which the Will of God manifests) do not stop functioning at any particular boundary of Creation. They apply just as much to the spiritual plane as to the physical one - so there most definitely is a correspondence between action and reaction in the spiritual plane.
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Re: The idea of Providence in a performance


In response to Ura,

That kind of Divine Love that manifests at the same time as Justice can seem like a mystery but I do not think that this means that it can not and should not be understood. Neither do I think that human spiritual behaviour should be taken as a stand point for undertanding the Divine or even for understanding the Creator in His Perfection. Looking even solely at the physical laws as understood by science: there is not one instance when these change or can be bypassed; they always work perfectly, inexorably. If these laws are part of a greater Will, then would the same not also be true for laws that affect us spiritually? In comparison, human love is far from perfect and can never be. While it is maybe the greatest gift, the very fact that for each person it manifests differently and personally differentiates it from the all-embracing Divine Love and Justice of the Creator.
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