Runboard.com
Слава Україні!
Cinemaseekers.com Message Board - Cinemaseekers Forum THE TRUTH ABOUT CINEMA

CINEMASEEKERS FORUM

This forum is meant to be an extension of the themes and concerns of our website. Please keep the focus on spirituality, philosophy and cinema. Thank you!
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this forum are the sole responsibility of the individual contributors and do not necessarily represent the views of the owners of this website (except in postings by the owners themselves under "cinemaseekers" or "questers".)

runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)

 
Chris Kelvin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 80
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
The problem of evil


Do you think man is evil by nature ? Or does he become evil by the pressure from outside and the injustice done to him ? I like to believe that man is born in this world as a peacefull being but I’m not so sure.
Especially in the aftermath of the horrible terrorist attacks in Spain I ask myself these questions. Could you forgive a terrorist ? Or in other words : How do we live with evil ?
3/15/2004, 11:58 pm Link to this post Send Email to Chris Kelvin   Send PM to Chris Kelvin
 
friendlessvoyage Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Banned user

Registered: 02-2004
Posts: 73
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The problem of evil


The important question for me is whether evil can ever be totally vanquished. I am still (let's hope this is obvious) undecided on these matters, but there must be a good force and a bad or evil force behind humanity or behind the universe, and some are led astray while others instead see the light. And yes some of this is predispositioned by genes, but don't forget that genes show what is passed down by blood, so that evil tendencies can in a sense run in families or bloodlines. I cannot help but see now all around me that evil is "winning" by majority in the world, affecting many of our brightest and most influential people. It's a magnificient, almost impressive presence in our culture - our modern, Western culture - a gaining one, increasing exponentially. But it won't be a battle won by numbers alone, and that gives me hope. The ones who have true faith can only be struck down in the flesh.

Matthew
3/21/2004, 5:06 am Link to this post Send Email to friendlessvoyage   Send PM to friendlessvoyage
 
Chris Kelvin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 80
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The problem of evil


I think the pressure from our (technological, capitalistic, industrial, consuming) civilization is a very evil force that is spreading all over the world. I think the stress that comes from this pressure is the biggest disease humanity ever had to face. The stress from standing in traffic, the winner society, but most importantly the feeling that you can’t controle your own life: many people are just part of this big system and what people say has no influence what so ever on the way society is treating them. The mayority of people are just part of this system that other powerfull people are ruling. The frustration of the mayority is that they feel that they are in essence not important. As I see it people don’t have a choice: they don’t live their life, life (thought out by intellectuals and coöperations, media,…) lives them. That’s a very heavy burden. People don’t really have a choice in how they want to live. I think the biggest danger is (and it is now happening) is that this pressure is getting bigger and bigger and stress is damaging more and more people.
I think stress is the biggest cause of evil. The pressure gets too big and people are getting more and more violent, indiffferent, egocentric,…..

I once saw a documentary about the behaviour of apes. You had two groups of them, each in different places in the world. The one group was influenced by humans: The apes could only eat when humans allowed them to eat and only in very small portions. What happend is that these apes started to get agressive. They started to fight for their food. The apes started to having stress by this presence of humans who basicly controlled how the apes lived. A huge amount of their natural invironment disappeared and their behaviour started to get very extreme: the apes started to kill eachother in the most horrible ways. They even started to attack human beings and a little girl was brutally murderer by these apes.
Now for the second group: here was a group of apes who never saw any human beings for centuries. Their natural invironment was completely intact and food was no problem. And these apes lived in complete harmony: humans studied them and came to the conclusion that they never showed any agressive behaviour what so ever. So my conclusion here is that the pressure from outside causes stress and stress causes violence.

That’s exactually what’s happening with our human modern way of living. The connection between humans and their destiny is destroyed. We don’t controle our lives anymore. They control us. And if humans are going to keep living in this kind of way (while it gets worse) things are going to get very very bad. I myself was under the influence of stress and I’m sorry to say but it really controlled me and I started to get very agressive and violent (agression and violence I never thought I had in me). Then I decided to get out and things where getting much better as they were before. That’s why I understand evil and how it works. I think every human being has a limit of pressure he can bear and if this pressure is getting too big humans become mad and are capable of great horror. And today the pressure is getting bigger and bigger: technology, industrial invironment, capitalism, globalisation, people having meaningless jobs (and lives),…..

Now what my question is: how do we deal with evil? Say, for example, someone murderer your son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father or friend? What would you do if you stood eye to eye with this person? How would you react? What would you do? How does one handle evil? Revenge or forgivness?...................
See how difficult this is? Even for someone who has faith?

Chris.
3/22/2004, 7:44 am Link to this post Send Email to Chris Kelvin   Send PM to Chris Kelvin
 
Chris Kelvin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 80
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The problem of evil


Dear cinemaseekers,

I have read “In the light of truth” but I still have some questions. Mainly about the forces of evil.

I understand that our perversion of the intellect is the mayor cause of evil, but that doesn’t give an answer on how we deal with evil. I really think we shouldn’t ignore this or see it as an irrelevant question. Especially in these times where darkness and evil is on the rise. I understand people put their hope in their faith when confronted with evil. But what if you were confornted with it very personally? As a believer? Especially in these times where it is very important to know what we can do to protect ourselves against evil. When confronted with all this evil one tends to lose his faith. When Christ said the words “Father? Why have you forsaken me?” didn’t he also doubt about his faith when confronted with all the horror that was done to him? As a person who experienced evil from very close (I won’t elaborate because it’s too personal) I still do have this dilemma. How does one handle evil? For me personally this is a mayor concern. We can’t just ignore it, pretend it’s not there and move on. We have to confront it. I just don’t know how exactually. But I do understand we have to focus ourselves on our faith and spiritual development so maybe that’s why you see these discussions about evil not very important because it keeps us away from the matters that are really important: mainly the path towards the light. I understand this. Still it bothers me and I think it’s important to discuss this because we (certainly me) are confronted with it daily. When I discuss evil I do this from a great inner struggle: it’s not just intellectually!......

I always had great admiration to those parents who lost their children in that shootout in Columbine and still had the strenght to keep on believing and even turning this bad experience in a good one!

Forgivness is very very hard!

With great respect.
Chris.


“This ethereal condition, now manifesting at its worst, is dreadful. Anyone permitted for only five seconds to glimpse what is happening would from sheer horror be deprived of all hope of salvation! – And all this has been brought about through the guilt of men themselves.” Abd-ru-shin (What separates so many from the light today? – In the light of truth).
3/22/2004, 1:05 pm Link to this post Send Email to Chris Kelvin   Send PM to Chris Kelvin
 
friendlessvoyage Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Banned user

Registered: 02-2004
Posts: 73
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The problem of evil


About the apes: I've read about chimpanzees in the wild who have been seen, albeit rarely, attacking (and killing) their fellow species, even ganging up on them and conducting what some scientists have erroneously labeled "warfare." And, of course, throughout the animal kingdom violence and misery has always been high.

The biggest problem facing globalisation under the power elite is that once this has come into full effect there can foreseeably be no turning back, which has never been the case before with past civilizations, because outside civilizations, ignorance of history, and loss of resources and climatic changes have led even the most magnificient cultures to shame. In this case, all of these factors are under better control than ever, especially with the aid of our rapidly advancing technologies, which allow for complete surveilence and mind control of everyone where-ever they go on the planet, climate adjustments (and eventually possibly full climate and environmental control), unprecendented scientific knowledge of nature and man, and so forth.

I agree about the high degree of stress and frustration. However, most people are oblivious to the big picture and who controls them, though oftentimes you find average people cursing the power of corporations or the federal government. It is not just stress, it is oppression, and I think there is a widespread, deep-rooted recognition among intelligent people that our culture has turned to trash in all forms of art, language, education, food, our holidays, our communities, our past-times.

I have a bigger hope that the power elite and their control over world events will eventually run out of steam or annihilate itself, such as through another world war, or the oil crisis, than I do for average nobodies such as myself ever managing to put a dent in their plans.

Matthew
3/22/2004, 6:30 pm Link to this post Send Email to friendlessvoyage   Send PM to friendlessvoyage
 
MatthewJ Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 10-2003
Posts: 27
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The problem of evil


I don't think we can remain ignorant of evil. But I don't like the idea of using violence ever, I can't accept this as a way to stop anything. It's one step forward, two steps back.

The only way we can combat evil is looking within and changing within. However, this is perhaps too late to be put into practice on a worldwide scale before we are overwhelmed by the changes that will take place on earth. So perhaps the answer is to work on yourself.
3/23/2004, 1:32 am Link to this post Send Email to MatthewJ   Send PM to MatthewJ
 
questers Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Head Administrator

Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 74
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The problem of evil


Dear Chris,

We most certainly understand your concern about evil. Just like you, we had experienced evil in our personal lives and even presently we are being confronted by it on a daily basis. This was one of the main "burning" questions that drove us to the Grail Message. And the Message most certainly does reveal not only the origin of evil, but how to deal with it. (What would be the point of explaining to us the nature of evil and then not giving us any clues as to how to deal with it?!) The problem lies in the fact that we all read the Message way too superficially. Especially on the first reading, we glide along the surface just getting the basic idea of the Laws and the general structure of Creation. But if we wish to have all our questions answered, we need to return to the Message again and again and delve into it with a great deal of intensity. Remember how Abd-ru-shin said that the Message is purposely structured in such a way as to force us to exert ourselves in order to obtain the answers we need. The answers are there, but they are scattered throughout the Message, like the pieces of the puzzle. It is up to us to put these pieces (basic operating principles of Creation) together so as to form a complete picture and a complete understanding of all the facets of life in Creation.

"This is the way I have given you in my Message, which contains everything, but which forces you to co-operate in this yourselves! It does not allow itself to be taken up lazily as something standing there complete, but upon each of your questions you must exert yourselves to extract from it and put together that which will form the perfect picture.
That is the peculiarity of the Living Word, which forms and educates you and forces you to movement of your spirit!" (Chapter "The Ring of Animistic Substantiality" from the Grail Message of Abd-ru-shin).

To tell you the truth, none of the readers of the Grail Message have as yet obtained all that is contained within it, because it is the only book to contain complete Knowledge of Creation. Naturally, some have been able to draw more than others. It all depends on the amount of effort that one is willing to put into it. Here again, Justice is fulfilled, since each one of us is able to get out of it only as much as he has put into it. Personally, we continue to be amazed at how much new information we continue to discover in it - and we have been reading the Message for almost ten years. But it is not the amount of time that makes the difference here, but the quality of the radiation of the spirit, i.e. the heat of the intensity of its longing to know. The first step for any seeker of Truth is to seek and find (not perpetually seek, as many believe), but to seek and then to find the genuine Source of Knowledge. And how does one verify the genuineness of this Source? By testing its principles on life itself and by seeing how these principles (when correctly applied) can explain every event, no matter how puzzling. This work should never end, because the more one draws from the Source of Knowledge and then strives to apply it to one's own life, the more one grows spiritually and therefore the more one is able to deal with whatever this world puts us through. In this way, one becomes a seeker on a different level: having found the guiding principles (Laws), on which the entire Creation is based, one then seeks to apply these principles to every aspect of earthly life. In a manner of speaking, one "rediscovers" the Message in life itself. Only then does it become the Living Message, yielding more and more of its treasures the deeper you probe into it.

And one of the very first treasures (realizations) to be unearthed is that "faith without knowledge is dead" and "only the indolent one is content with faith" (chapter "Errors" from the Grail Message of Abd-ru-shin). This is stated point-blank in the Grail Message: faith alone will not provide the protection against evil. That is why the Truth had to be brought down to us from Above once again: even though Christ had already brought it, yet the contemporary man cannot deal with his (self-created) contemporary environment unless the Truth/Knowledge is explained to him in a New Form, using contemporary language and utilizing the scientific discoveries of the frequencies/emanations/radiations that proceed from man and connect him with the whole network of Cosmic radiations. How this immense network of Cosmic radiations works, what comprises it, how man is plugged into it, and, most importantly, how he can use it to protect himself against all evil (including that ethereal condition, which you quoted from the Message) - all of this is explained in the Grail Message. You hold the Message in your hands, but you do not as yet possess its Knowledge. First, dig into it with all the fervor of your spirit, then you will surely find it there - and after that, start applying the knowledge by experimenting with life itself. All of this will take time, naturally (not to mention effort). That is why we find it sad, when we see long discussions, which quickly degenerate into chatter, go round and round in circles and never really get off the dead point from which they have started. All the while, you are in possession of the treasure which contains all the answers to all of your questions, but which remains unused. Of course, this does not mean that some exchanges cannot be beneficial, but to seek answers to life's most important questions from people is a waste of time. (One of our favorite chapters in the Message is "Silence". If you just try to apply this little treasure - the power of silence - to your life, you would be amazed at the results).

You are absolutely right. Forgiveness is very very hard. And if you continue to approach it as a mere "believer", you will not get very far. At least, you are honest about it and do not deceive yourself, like so many "believers", who are eager to declare that they forgive everything and everyone. Inseparable from this issue is the knowledge of how God forgives, for we certainly want to imitate that in our own life. The Grail Message gives us this knowledge and, oh, how different it is from the way earthly religions have portrayed it! You were wondering about the mass murderer who is on trial in Belgium: no one can forgive him his propensity for killing. Individuals may forgive him the harm he caused them personally, but that will not release him from the dark radiation-ties caused by his propensity. He will have to conquer himself by undergoing a complete inner change and only through this process will his dark radiation-threads detach from him, freeing him to join the Eternal Part of Creation. Should he be unwilling or unable to do this (which is one and the same thing), he will be drawn into disintegration and perish. It is essentially the same process for all of us, just involving our own individual sets of propensities.

One final thing. Christ did not lose faith on the cross, because instead of faith He possessed Knowledge/Truth and was One with It. The reality behind this incident has been revealed in one of the related Grail books: Lucifer momentarily appeared before Christ, startling Him into that remark "Father, why have you forsaken me?" As soon as He uttered this, Lucifer vanished. When will we humans stop looking for excuses for our indolence and grasp the Treasure which has been dropped in our lap?


3/23/2004, 12:04 pm Link to this post Send Email to questers   Send PM to questers
 
Chris Kelvin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 80
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The problem of evil


Thank you. You really helped me with this.

Last edited by Chris Kelvin, 3/23/2004, 8:52 pm
3/23/2004, 8:50 pm Link to this post Send Email to Chris Kelvin   Send PM to Chris Kelvin
 


Add a reply





You are not logged in (login)